palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jun 23, 2009 10:13:11 GMT 1
Thanks for the heads up Coder12. I actually joined the emuholics forum just so I could ask vilmos how to get PMAME to compile, but I haven't heard anything from him. I did find ana manage to build an _017 version of module0 which actually worked with the first release of the _017 loader. From that, I could probably figure out how to make the #defines headers to build the other modules, but the 017 loader source code could not be found. ALso, 017 has kind of buggy sound. I didn't have the same luck with the 018 sources even though they included the loader source. Same story as the 021 release, the modules appear to build fine, but get FATAL EXCEPTION when loading, and I cannot properly build the release version of the loader, just the debug version. I definitely see a pattern where I get the Fatal Exception error when loading modules that don't match the loader release, so maybe the key is to figure out how to build the loader. At least with the working 017 module source, I have a way of debugging the process. I guess I'm not quite as concerned with the loader since I'm going to try to tie the PMAME module in to LJP-Lite's loader. I'm sure I'll be havint to modify the pno_loader and bridge in the process. But I wanted to test my reduced+combined master module on PMAME before trying to make it work in LJP-Lite. Again, any tips from anyone who has gotten any complete version of PMAME version 018 or higher would be appreciated...
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jun 23, 2009 10:19:05 GMT 1
In another note, I'm almost ready to release a Beta of LJP-Lite. I'm just trying to add the GBC Color palette hack for B&W Gameboy games which never got finished in the port as well as trying to figure out how to do a 1.25x(Y) by 2x(X) scaler for the VCS module to make it more pleasing to the eye. I put in a hack where the VCS no longer chops of the bottom of the screen simply by extending the render loop past 192 lines. Not sure why that worked, since the VCS is supposed to only have 192 lines. Possibly the starting offset pointer is wrong? I'll play around a bit more and see what I can do. I'll probably package up a Beta release prior to putting these fixes in, since I want to get it out there for testing (and playing ) Any PMAME integration(if possible) will be part of a LJP-Lite 2.0 project, I'm guessing.
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jul 2, 2009 1:19:17 GMT 1
I can now build a fully working version of PMAME from sources, and I've already started paring down the modules. I started with module 9 and reduced it down to about 1.3MB. There is still more to remove like unnneded machine files, and video and HW audio. The 50% cut came from just the drivers and the CPUs alone. I'm going to keep working with module 9 as my base and adding in the games module by module working downward until I have my single module PMAME-Lite. Then I'll finish stripping out video and audio HW that is not needed. Once I get a working PMAME-Lite(With about 50-70 games supported), I'll then work on integrating the module into something that can be loaded from LJP-Lite's Launcher. This whole experience is helping me get very famliarized with both the LJP and PMAME sources and organization. This will probably be my first, last, and only major Palm project; but I totally want to port the whole monolithic emulator system to Mac OS-X(first) and then the iPhone(Later). Why Mac OS-X, you ask? Because I want to put it on a hacked AppleTV and set it up in Kiosk mode(No finder-Launches the Emulator Launcher at boot up) and make a multi emulator game system that hooks up to my TV and only requires game controllers to use(an idea that I've been trying to figure out how to implement for several years).
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Post by coder12 on Jul 2, 2009 22:40:52 GMT 1
...Why Mac OS-X, you ask? Because I want to put it on a hacked AppleTV and set it up in Kiosk mode(No finder-Launches the Emulator Launcher at boot up) and make a multi emulator game system that hooks up to my TV and only requires game controllers to use(an idea that I've been trying to figure out how to implement for several years). I think I love you. Oddness aside, It would definitely be sweet to see some of these features put into the regular LJP for those of us who don't really have a great need for the lite edition. Idk how hard it would be to do I guess, but it definitely would be sweet.
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Post by totalnewbie on Jul 9, 2009 5:04:51 GMT 1
LJP-lite sounds like a great idea, will it support the Zire 31 or low resolution devices.. I could do with out mame IMO, I would like very much to have a lite version of LJP though..
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jul 10, 2009 22:09:31 GMT 1
Hmmm, well I dropped the Low Res devices for LJP-Lite as part of the "Lite-ness" was removing less mainstream devices and devices with lower capabilities. However, following up with an LJP-UltraLite version optimized for low-res devices might be fun If I end up with a dirt cheap Zire 31 to use as a test vehicle, I'll probably take a crack at it. What emulators would you think it should support? Right now LJP-Lite supports NES, Gameboy, SMS, GameGear(but not in the UI yet), and VCS(which has always been buggy). Maybe just NES, GameBoy, and SMS for LJP-UltraLite?
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jul 10, 2009 22:13:32 GMT 1
...Why Mac OS-X, you ask? Because I want to put it on a hacked AppleTV and set it up in Kiosk mode(No finder-Launches the Emulator Launcher at boot up) and make a multi emulator game system that hooks up to my TV and only requires game controllers to use(an idea that I've been trying to figure out how to implement for several years). I think I love you. Oddness aside, It would definitely be sweet to see some of these features put into the regular LJP for those of us who don't really have a great need for the lite edition. Idk how hard it would be to do I guess, but it definitely would be sweet. Hmmm Awkwaaaaard. Ok, lovefest aside, I'm sure eventually I can take the time to document the fixes and features and work them into the original LJP code. One thing at a time, of course
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Post by haisook on Jul 30, 2009 15:37:08 GMT 1
I'm quite excited about your project, palmdoogie. Although I use a T5, I still find LJP packed with features I don't like. I can't wait for your program, so please post a date, at least approximate, for release.
Good luck.
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jul 30, 2009 20:20:50 GMT 1
Hello Haisook, I think you're going to like this version. It's really geared for all of the Tungsten devices with the 5-way nav button, although I only have a T1, T2, and T3 to test it on. It also supports the Zodiac, since that is such a great platform for this type of emulator(Heck, it all started on the Zodiac, I believe). Stay posted, I'll have something ready to try out soon. The LJP portion is getting polished into a great interface, and... and... Great News! I got the PMAME-Lite module working and I actually figured out how to integrate it into LJP! I can even launch and play games, but the drivers are out of alphabetical order, so it chooses the wrong game at the moment. This will be harder to fix because of two things, 1: PMAME used a table and figured out what items to display based on what should be visible and had to implement its own list scrolling, while LJP simply used a form list where the scrolling ability and such is built in. and 2: PMAME pre-builds a list of all drivers then figures out which ROMs you have. It does this at both ends (The 68K launcher app and the ARMLET which actually has the emulator) and passes the game index only(a number) to choose the game. LJP actually passes the ROM name to the ARMLET.... I'm going to try to figure out how to do that with the PMAME module so I don't have to build a driver array twice. Anyways the PMAME-Lite module will work with about 70 or so ROMS of the games that are most likely to run well on these units...
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Post by haisook on Jul 30, 2009 20:52:42 GMT 1
Great! However, wouldn't MAME emu be too much for a 'lite' version? P.S. what about a screenshot to quench our thirst? Btw, did you implement color palettes for the GB? The sepia one of the current LJP is very ugly and hard on the eyes. At least a clear B/W one would do, like that of Phoinix (which I'm using currently).
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jul 30, 2009 23:47:33 GMT 1
Well, part of the "Lite-Ness" for me was to combine all of the things I use into one launcher. The other part of the Lite-Ness was to greatly simplify the user interface and the number of screens you have to deal with. As of now there is just one launcher screen, one config screen, and one about screen. I've replaced the popup menu for the systems into what looks like a tabbed browser with large buttons on the side of the Rom List window. I'll tease you all with some screen shots very soon. I wish there was a good way to capture screenshots on the Palm instead of having to use a digital camera. I can't seem to find a Tungsten ROM for the Palm OS Simulator. I have a Zodiac ROM, but the UI colors don't look the same as they do on a real unit. I'm wondering if there's a way to extract a rom from one of my T|Ts to use with the Palm OS Simulator that comes with CodeWarrior...
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Jul 30, 2009 23:52:50 GMT 1
... Oh yeah, the Mame Module has also been lightened. Instead of the Ten modules each being about 3MB, I have only one module that is about 2.3MB. It has drivers for the most popular of the 8-bit CPU based games of he early to mid 80s. Most of the 16-bit and later games run sluggishly on the Palm anyway(Even on the T|T3 at 400MHz). Besides the ROMs selection thing, I still have to fix the code so that I can use a zipped Mame Module like the other LJP modules...
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Post by haisook on Jul 31, 2009 10:58:38 GMT 1
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Post by coder12 on Jul 31, 2009 14:16:39 GMT 1
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Post by haisook on Jul 31, 2009 22:39:48 GMT 1
Hey palmdoogie, I was thinking, may be you could look at the source code of Phoinix [http://phoinix.sourceforge.net/] and implement the touchscreen support? Would this be difficult to implement? It's done beautifully in Phoinix; it makes playing some games, especially the non-action games, a wonderful experience. The Palm buttons are really uncomfortable. Here is a direct download to the source of the latest version of Phoinix: sourceforge.net/projects/phoinix/files/phoinix/v.1.4.2/Phoinix-1.4.2.tgz/downloadI'd owe you my eternal gratitude if you did it. I use the not-so-OS5-friendly Phoinix only because of this great feature (although to be honest, the program is neat in all aspects). Would like to hear your opinion about this..
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Post by cecilyen on Aug 7, 2009 5:34:32 GMT 1
Don't take SNES emu module away! Please~~~~~ SNES is one of my favorite console and runs ok on my T3.
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Post by haisook on Aug 7, 2009 13:04:42 GMT 1
Don't take SNES emu module away! Please~~~~~ SNES is one of my favorite console and runs ok on my T3. SNES requires a lot of workarounds to get it to work, even on my T5. Even with UDMH, dbcachetool, and all the suggestions here. I stopped trying. This lite version is well,.. light. A SNES compatibility would ruin the whole idea of the program. You'd be better off with the full LJP, I guess.
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Post by haisook on Aug 7, 2009 22:19:07 GMT 1
Well... so what's up palmdoogie? Any news?
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Post by beavis on Aug 8, 2009 7:53:30 GMT 1
Hi palmdoogie. I'm curious about a certain aspect of PalmMAME integration into LJP-Lite. Vilmos has stated that PalmMAME cannot utilize game state saving and loading due to the version of MAME it is derived from. I'm guessing that the answer is still no, but is there any possibility of game saves in your version?
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Post by haisook on Aug 17, 2009 20:54:23 GMT 1
Hello? Anyone home? palmdoogie?
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Post by coder12 on Aug 17, 2009 23:23:39 GMT 1
Hello? Anyone home? palmdoogie? Relax bro, when they come on again they'll fill you in.
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Post by ddddyyyy on Aug 19, 2009 8:13:45 GMT 1
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Aug 19, 2009 20:29:22 GMT 1
Um. OK no idea where the previous post came from, but here's an update and a response to some of the above posts:
1. Coder12: I got ZGrab and it's mostly what I'm looking for, but It won't grab a screenshot from a running armlet apparently. No huge deal, but Id like to show my new beltbar. I could always just grab the bmp resource and post it...
2. Haisook: Not really familiar with the touch screen aspect of Phoinix. How does it work? As far as straight B&W over the sepia recreation of the original gameboy "Spinach Green" display, that is a good idea. I could not get the color selection option working, but I tried directly manipulating the palette to try and colorize games, but the colors that looked good for one game looked funny on another. I tried to make Super Mario Land look good with green grass, blue sky, red mario uniform, etc, but other objects looked funny and other even mario games use the palatte differently and looked funny. So, I'm probably gonna scrap that idea and allow for pure grayscale option instead. I actually implemented the color as an "easter egg" you get to by pressing both A and B buttons and then resetting the machine.
3. Cecilyen: Sorry, but SNES is long gone. It had a lot of overhead, is difficult to get working smoothly on all but the fastest units (Like the T3) and in my opinion, just doesn't translate to the small palm screen very well as most games have more fine detail that makes it less pleasant to play on the small screen. You'll probably want to stick with the full LJP.
4. Beavis: Sorry, I saw in the code where the state saving and loading was commented out because it wasn't fully implemented or working in MAME 0.37 yet. I'm not sure I'll be have the time to get this working as I have really REALLY pared down the source code for the MAME module. See below...
5. MAME Update: Wow, my PMAME Lite got out of control as I was striving to get this module to under 2MB. I got it down to 1.2Mb, but heres whats left for now: Only the drivers with the most commonality were kept for now which includes Z80 and 6502 based units with only the most common sound generation chips. This brings the driver list down to about 40 drivers with no clones, so that really means 40 mostly unique games (except for the fast that, say, centipede, and millipede are basically the same game, and pacman and ms pacman etc...)
What I'm really doing is removing ALL of the JUNK that the palm platform has no need for like alternative rotations (ie thingytail mode) and non existent keyboard LEDs; as well as things I don't need in a Lite version (Like game history .dat file support, artwork, etc). When I finish with the slicing and dicing, I'll try to add in drivers that don't add much overhead(ie clones and drivers that don't add new CPUs or Sound chips). I got the best bang for the KByte out of the Z80 and 6502 based games for now.
Screen shots WILL follow, I just need a little more time and possibly a way to capture from the armlets themselves. On an unrelated note, since I've changed so much of the sources of both LJP-Lite and PMAME as well as some distinct changes to the UI of the launcher, I'm considering renaming LJP-Lite to something else, although I'll definitely give credit to LJP-Lite and PMame in my about screen. Hopefully this won't offend the original creators of each app...
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palmdoogie
Junior Member
Re-living the 80s
Posts: 66
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Post by palmdoogie on Aug 19, 2009 20:34:13 GMT 1
Wow! The autocensor for the forum changed C**ktail Mode into thingytail mode; Hilarious
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Post by haisook on Aug 20, 2009 15:20:09 GMT 1
<...and I was wondering what 'thingytail' actually is..> Well, palmdoogie, nice to hear back from you. The B/W GB color theme is fine, much better than that brownish one. I don't know how the touchscreen works in Phoinix. I thought the source code could help. As to taking screenshots, try my suggestion in a post above. May be it would work. If not, a camera shots would do. Anyway, keep up, and good luck.
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Post by coder12 on Aug 21, 2009 16:22:56 GMT 1
thingy, thingytail.
LMAO, thats hilarious.
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Post by haisook on Oct 27, 2009 3:32:40 GMT 1
Ahem.. Umm..
Any news?
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Post by coder12 on Oct 30, 2009 2:38:55 GMT 1
... Seems like LJP has peacefully died. RIP little buddy... I'll never forget my first time playing you (the game was sonic and knuckles), and I will never see the last.
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Post by countbuggula on Oct 30, 2009 17:24:34 GMT 1
It's died right along with the PalmOS. I still use it, only because Sprint would force me to get a plan twice as expensive as what I'm currently on just to upgrade to a newer phone. Aside from a few sticklers like myself, PalmOS no longer has a user base strong enough to support any sort of software development. As much as it saddens me, the future is in the iPhone, Android, and if we're lucky, WebOS.
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Post by haisook on Oct 31, 2009 12:28:16 GMT 1
But I thought indie developers would not easily give up, especially that in this case, palmdoogie was making it as a treat for himself. So I thought he'd really make it..
Oh well..
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