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Post by teeth03 on Mar 17, 2006 12:45:05 GMT 1
must be a no then...ah well,thanx for the info guys
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Post by laxer3a on Mar 17, 2006 12:45:28 GMT 1
Hi, have been really hyper busy at work for a few days. (just time to sleep)
For the volume level, it seems that some people are saying that the sound volume in TYL is too low compare to other emu. (It is the third or fourth time I hear that..)
The problem is with the emulation of the audio chipset itself I believe...
When it generate audio sample, it is most likely generating the audio data with a full range of dynamic (or the APU code should... I didnt check the detail).
So I am wondering where that "loss" of volume occurs.
A/ APU emulation does not generate full range audio output.
B/ Game creators on snes were told to do not use full range audio data.
(same as TV CM audio "volume" is louder than other TV program if you didnt notice)
C/ The compression scheme for audio sample in the APU was may be a problem for audio creator to do so.
D/ Other game console have poorer audio hardware and then generate sound with more "peak" /rich spectrum.(Megadrive is a YM2149 I believe...)
-> The "volume" you feel is equal to the energy contained in the waveform.
The more "primitive" is the signal (the less naturally made of sinus waves), like square, the more energy you have.
If you have listened to a CD with a scratch on it, you know what I mean. It is a peak... during that short period of time (1/100 of a sec) you just hear a very "energy rich" sound, if the volume of your CD player was high, you may have hurt your ears.
(Dirac peak -> take the whole spectrum)
For improving on the TYL side, one possibility could be to artifically add more "volume", but then full range sound may be most likely saturated if it happends.
The more I think of it, the more it is likely that other console have more primitive audio chipset, thus generating "richer" spectrum. -> "more loud".
Sorry for looking "too much intellectual" here, but I think it is a correct explaination to the phenomenon people are earing compare to other emu.
Can somebody give me more details about the audio chip used in the emulated console they feel louder ? (references/number copy paste are enough, I will get further technical detail myself)
Thanks.
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Post by corona on Mar 17, 2006 13:44:59 GMT 1
So the truth is that we can't have a volume increase for this release... Am I right? .... Oh well.....  |
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Post by laxer3a on Mar 17, 2006 14:46:47 GMT 1
Yes... Well we can try to experiment some stuff for the release after.
Still I believe that the audio code for Snes9x is correct and accurate.
Most likely people feel that other hardware are louder because of the quality of the original chipset. (sound easily saturated, FM based and so on...)
Still I would like to know why.
Can somebody tell me at least what emulator seems louder so I can check the console specs ?
Megadrive right ? Any other one ?
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Post by corona on Mar 17, 2006 15:00:23 GMT 1
Every Sega emulator Ive played seems to have heavy emphasis on sound.
All of them have lots and lots of volume.
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Post by laxer3a on Mar 17, 2006 15:58:24 GMT 1
I have checked : megadrive is based on a FM 6 channel audio chip.
The snes audio chipset is based on audio "sample"... I start to believe this is the difference.
FM chips have probably a tendancy to user the spectrum in a richer way. (while providing less rich different "mood")
All previous console generation are using FM i believe... (Atari ST too)
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Post by betatester on Mar 17, 2006 18:21:28 GMT 1
awesome i cant wait. every day if i have the chance i come surfing by here to check the news.
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Post by yoyofr on Mar 18, 2006 22:25:57 GMT 1
network should work well between me & standard version, so netplay will be possible between 1.5 & 2.00 firmwares. I've posted some screenshots (medium quality) of the new GUI at the website (check the 4 screenshots at the bottom), so if you want to have an idea of how it looks, check them !  |
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Post by Cheeezy on Mar 18, 2006 23:10:18 GMT 1
I dig it, cant wait. What is that Apu cycles thin in the sound tab?
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ar15
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by ar15 on Mar 19, 2006 0:16:39 GMT 1
About 'compatibility lowered', does that mean games that are working in 0.3 won't work with 0.4?
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Post by skeldwar on Mar 19, 2006 0:54:46 GMT 1
Its one thing to read about it. But now that we can see the GUI, its even more exciting. I'm so glad that this EMU is being worked on so much. Keep up the great work. You will always have support.
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Post by yoyofr on Mar 19, 2006 1:15:23 GMT 1
that's what I said. hopefully playing with the new 'apu cycles ratio' will solve compatibility issue most of the time.
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Post by corona on Mar 19, 2006 2:11:37 GMT 1
Ive noticed a indicator on the bottom of the screens of the new GUI that lists available free ram.
Will this feature be on the next release, or is it only going to be on the moighty dev version?
Will this indicator be on screen during rom play?
I really would like to know how much ram exactly is being used by the rom images I'm running, because it would help to know what kind of ideas are worth mentioning.
(example: if most roms end up taking up most the ram, then it would not be worth while requesting features that would eat up more ram, such as integrated mp3 players)
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Post by shagohod1964 on Mar 19, 2006 2:12:05 GMT 1
ok, all these add ons are great and all, but theres just one thing id like to see and thats the ability to save games. not the state of the settings, i mean actually have a way to play like chrono trigger, hit save game, reset the emulator and everything, and it still b there. will that be in there, or is it already on 0.3 and im just too stupid to figure it out?
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ar15
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by ar15 on Mar 19, 2006 3:45:57 GMT 1
^Just use savestates, every game has 10 slots.
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Post by chevy03racing on Mar 19, 2006 6:43:53 GMT 1
when is the release date?  |
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Post by laxer3a on Mar 19, 2006 9:49:14 GMT 1
We can't promise thing... May be yoyo plan to release this week-end or the next one.
But you never know because, may be something with his work may impact the release.
The only thing we can say is SOON.(compare to the time it took between the 0.2 and 0.3)
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obake
New Member
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Post by obake on Mar 19, 2006 11:07:56 GMT 1
what about the bug with the random crashing? is it fixed? and yoyo mentioned a lowered compatibility, what does that exactly mean? do some games crash randomly or do they just don't start anymore? thanks anyways and enjoy your weekend  |
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Post by laxer3a on Mar 19, 2006 15:17:51 GMT 1
I think we will put a "sticked" notice when we release the 0.4 on the web site to explain the problems and how to solve them.
Basically the "power" of TYL is due to its high tuning and new hardware feature used and lots of possible fine tuning in the emulator. While it is powerfull, it is also a WEAK point for the user : need to fine tune quite some games, user does not understand the feature and so on...
After the 0.4 we will focus more on these issues. We think that for the technical knowledge we have for the moment, 0.4 is the best we can have.
To be able get the speed improvment we wanted in the next version of TYL, we had to "optimize" some part. This may break the compatibility with some games... also,
the worst issue is that the "setup" of the emu itself may be the problem if the user do not understand what he is doing with the new ME audio setup.
The random crashing seems to have been greatly reduced, but we cant test all the ROM outside.
This week I will help yoyo by testing games everyday... Hope we can release ASAP.
(But dont expect this forthcoming week at least)
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Post by corona on Mar 19, 2006 21:49:13 GMT 1
Wow, even though thats incredibly vague, I'm still really happy to see that you guys are interested in furthering the emulation possibilities.
You two (Yoyo and Laxer) rock the pants. Your emulator is by FAR the best work in homebrew so far (with the possible exception of the N64 emulator) and put to shame all other emulators.
Every other one of the devs seems only interested in doing simple ports, but you two are actually tweaking and working hard at it, and for that you will have my respect.
Thunder and Yoyo, you two are the greatest.
Thanks guys.
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Post by echizen on Mar 20, 2006 22:54:44 GMT 1
0.4 sounds promising! What about the picture of the new GUI? |
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Post by corona on Mar 21, 2006 0:40:22 GMT 1
Its on the main page.
Just go and look at the screens yourself.
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Post by brent2k6 on Mar 21, 2006 20:49:07 GMT 1
the suspense is killing me over here lol, just cant wait till this release comes out  |
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Post by corona on Mar 22, 2006 2:23:49 GMT 1
I hear you buddy.
I also am dying from anticipation.
TYL has become amazing enough to keep me entertained for hours on end, and with the new release imminent, Im super psyched about all the new implementations.
I CANT WAIT!!
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Post by glitch on Mar 22, 2006 2:32:38 GMT 1
like i said b4, release it now n when you fix that wireless thing release it as 4a
j/k
I CANT WAIT EITHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by laxer3a on Mar 22, 2006 7:52:53 GMT 1
As a japanese proverb says : " you can not make a plant grow faster by pulling it".
I think you got the meaning right ? ;-)
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Post by oojesusoo on Mar 24, 2006 0:05:19 GMT 1
respect yoyofr and laxer3a if u want a snes emu that bad make it urself and have you seen the update list
cheats implimented and multiplayer if they get those working the only things they can do after that is make their own snes games thats how amazing this update is.
no effence
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ar15
Junior Member
Posts: 53
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Post by ar15 on Mar 24, 2006 9:29:17 GMT 1
Will 0.4 crash as frequent as 0.3?
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Post by frmariam on Mar 24, 2006 18:00:51 GMT 1
Well I hope the full screen/full screen cropped issue will be solved (it actually cuts parts of the game...). Same for the bg bmp bug in the previsous 0.3 standard (good thing we could bypass it though but it would be nice to have it fixed...). And the bug caused by the sound freq (a lower sound freq would slow down the game?!?)... Also I know that the ME changes is what will bring most progress (won't run on 2.0+ though ) but will the standard version have any speed improvements (even if minor)? I'm not asking about a mode7 breakthough but I'd like to know if general games will see any speedup (like my frameskip will have less one unit). A question, I've seen the screenshot of the new menu and looks great. I'd like to know if tabs are going to be used (like in Zelurker's latest NeoCD). Sorry if any of these as been answered before... And I know some stuff will obviously change before release... I'd just like to know a little about the current dev stage Keep up the good work! |
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Post by skeldwar on Mar 25, 2006 7:23:23 GMT 1
Oh man, discouraging news on the beta test thread. Multiple problems with 0.4.... I am really depressed about that. It stated the network was not stable and a lot of games were SLOWER.
Owell, we can't get too discouraged. I will always support TYL. Please TYL, if you need anything from your dedicated supporters and fans, don't be afraid to voice it.
Good luck with the new problems. I know you can overcome.
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