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Post by granmastern on Mar 15, 2006 10:38:38 GMT 1
;D ;D ;DHi im new here and i would like to congradulate the makers of this great emulator, im having fun plaing these great snes games, i am thinking of buying a wireless keyboard for my palm zire 72 of any type or even just a normal keyboard and i was wondering if it works or anyone uses one and what type, thnkx
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Post by spacelime on Mar 15, 2006 14:16:10 GMT 1
I bought the bgp100 bluetooth gamepad but it doesn't seem to be compatible with LJP. It works with everything else, even in the menues of LJP, but as soon as I launch a game there is no longer connection. I guess this would be because LJP shuts of bluetooth to speed up emulation but I'm not sure.
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Post by _Em on Mar 15, 2006 18:16:50 GMT 1
Actually, it's due to LJP handling button inputs directly, instead of through the OS's event handler... and all the other input devices work by patching the event handler so the Palm thinks a hard button is being pressed/a graffiti stroke is being completed when it's really the external input device.
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Post by spacelime on Mar 15, 2006 19:35:10 GMT 1
I see. It would slow everything down to go through the os event handler i suppose, or would that be possible as an option in future versions maybe?
I guess the better way would be to have a gamepad driver that doesn't patch the event handler but rather ADD new buttons that are acting just like the original ones. Don't know anything about how the os works, do you think this would be possible?
Also, I noticed quite a nasty latency when I tried the gamepad on native games. Do you think this is a limitation of the bluetooth interface or rather a cause of the patching you described?
It's really a shame they did it this way. Not much use to have a gamepad that you can't use for games. I really hope chainpus will release another driver but i guess that won't happen.
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Post by _Em on Mar 15, 2006 19:49:56 GMT 1
1) Tinnus has already stated in numerous other threads that he's never going to add event handler support, as it would make the emulators unusable.
2) Well, Tinnus does it (in a way), so I don't see why I/O manufacturers couldn't -- except that it would take more time/money, and any software written would have to be specifically designed to work with their hardware.
3) This is due to the patching... basicly, the delay is the same one you'd experience using graffiti, as this is where most input devices patch in to the system.
4) Chalk it down to Palm cutting corners to make their devices more lightweight and cheaper to produce than the PDA that came before -- the Newton MessagePad. Due to these early design decisions, they've really backed themselves into a blind canyon with respect to a number of interface decisions. POS 6 was supposed to fix all this, but we don't have any POS 6 devices yet; just a WindowsCE device and a bunch of hacked up POS 5 ones.
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Post by Tinnus on Mar 16, 2006 2:16:56 GMT 1
_Em, thanks for the explanations  granmastern, welcome to the forum, and try to work a little more on your messages... this is not a chatroom and sometimes it's a little hard to understand posts like this  |
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Post by granmastern on Mar 16, 2006 10:08:26 GMT 1
 lol, thnks so I guess this is a no at the moment, but im not bothered because im still amazed on the capabilities of this genuis emulator, because it works, you dont have to convert a million roms and it does SNES!!! i know you might have answered my question with the bluetooth keyboard but what about the infra red keybaord, does anyone have one and does it work/or not work and why? thnks for the replies everyone 
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Post by angel on Mar 16, 2006 10:11:05 GMT 1
Consider any device outside your palm is too slow to be used in ljp. Whatever it is wifi, bluetooth, irda or cable, it will use os event and take forever to make ljp acting.
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Post by beavis on Mar 16, 2006 13:35:29 GMT 1
Yes, true. It seems the only device outside of the palm that will work must be based upon a hardware modification. Such as wiring a controller's buttons directly to the wires of the palm's buttons. Simply an extension of the palm buttons, thereby bypassing any need for OS interaction.
Although that shouldn't stop anyone from testing any current or future devices.
And if device makers decide to improve their drivers, there may be hope yet...
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Post by _Em on Mar 16, 2006 18:00:31 GMT 1
Read my post above: the problem is that you'd have to rewrite a significant section of the Palm OS to give the device drivers anything to patch into other than the hard buttons -- although the code used for the Treo keypads *might* do the trick (I'm not sure how Palm hacked that into the OS).
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Menchi
Junior Member
Across Emergency food
Posts: 90
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Post by Menchi on Apr 10, 2006 0:58:05 GMT 1
How about making a keyboard that we can plug in the palm port and doing a function that reads that port input? that way I think it won't reduce the emulation speed too much. Anyway, is it posible to do that function (I mean: reading a value in the palm port is quick enought?) 
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Post by Tinnus on Apr 10, 2006 13:27:17 GMT 1
That basically means writing a driver...
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Post by metaview on Apr 10, 2006 18:19:28 GMT 1
Ok, seems I'm going to buy such a thing (I've found it new for 25 EUR on ebay) and try to integrate it into zdoomz, then we could use the same code for LJP...
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Post by mavsman4457 on Apr 10, 2006 19:07:04 GMT 1
that would be sick
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Menchi
Junior Member
Across Emergency food
Posts: 90
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Post by Menchi on Apr 11, 2006 17:02:17 GMT 1
Yes, but what I mean is if is it posible to design a simple keyboard for the palm port (I made something like it for the pc paralel port that worked ok) but I dont know how to use the palm port (in c) 
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Post by metaview on Apr 11, 2006 17:28:55 GMT 1
Most Palms have a serial port. I would think that you could add the PC keyboard to it. You will need to poll the serial port every there and then, it might work. Something I've thought about was a small AVR or other µC whith 4 digital IO and 4 analog inputs and a serial output. This could translate the PC joypad (gameport) into a simple serial 2 byte code, which you could read from the Palm. I'm busy right now and might rather check the BT gamepad way. But maybe someone else wants to create such a device. I'm sure we can put support for it into LJP etc.
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Post by _Em on Apr 13, 2006 0:02:14 GMT 1
Hmm... you just reminded me; there's an AVR programming package for the Palm. It only works with Palm devices that do serial though; not USB Palms. palmavr.sourceforge.net/(thought some of you might like that, if you didn't know about it) |
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Post by blacken on Apr 23, 2006 17:57:56 GMT 1
I can think of a fairly simple way to add wireless support. (Simple as in elegant, not quite so simple as in code.) I'm working on it halfheartedly--a record-and-spew technique. In the configuration menu, open the wireless port for polling. If it gets a signal (say, the Z key on the wireless keyboard), it records the value that the keyboard sent.
In the game itself (assuming that a wireless keyboard has been configured), poll the wireless port. If it matches the Z key recorded (on, say, the start button for a SNES)--send along the start button to the SNES emulator.
Shouldn't be too hard...
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Post by Tinnus on Apr 24, 2006 1:09:50 GMT 1
Hmm, you'd need to open the IR port in raw mode I believe. I could be wrong though.
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Post by blacken on Apr 24, 2006 14:31:40 GMT 1
I'm pretty sure you're right, Tinnus; raw mode should subvert the event handler's control of the wireless keyboard.
Heeeey...that means I could play SNES games via a television remote...
BT keyboards would be harder, but something else just came to mind. Since I'm at the height of laziness at the moment (and am in a class with a thoroughly Naziish proxy server)--which current-model handhelds have a five-pin mini-USB port? (The Zire 72 does, I know, but no others come to mind.)
If a number of them do...well, I've converted a SNES controller to USB. Mini-USB would be an easy hack as well, but I'm just wondering how I'd control it via the PalmOS.
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Post by Tinnus on Apr 24, 2006 16:35:29 GMT 1
You wouldn't, cause Palms cannot act as USB hosts. Also, only the T|E and Zire 72 have the mini-usb plug IIRC.
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Post by blacken on Apr 24, 2006 20:41:56 GMT 1
I was afraid of that. I was hoping it'd been something I missed in the documentation. Oh, well. Maybe for Cobalt. (Yeah, right.)
I'm talking to Dmitry right now, and he says that raw mode is probably doable, though difficult to code.
Even if it's not something put into LJP proper, I want it just for me! The Zire 72 (which I have) is two buttons too few for my taste.
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Post by mavsman4457 on Apr 24, 2006 21:55:45 GMT 1
i agree with blacken about the zire 72 buttons.
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Post by _Em on Apr 26, 2006 0:16:42 GMT 1
It's probably a lot easier to make an RS232 dongle, and run your external joypad through that... all palm devices *can* still handle RS232, although with the latest batch, Palm's made it more difficult to use.
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Post by metaview on Apr 26, 2006 22:05:16 GMT 1
yeap, that's what I'm planing to do. BTW: I'm even thinking about adding support for my IR keyboard to doom...
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Post by _Em on Apr 27, 2006 18:08:42 GMT 1
Hmm... what'd be great is if some enterprising developer would make a HID-style driver for Palm --That way, developers could compile "HID" support into their products, and any device that speaks BT/IR/RS232 and sends keycodes would automatically be supported |
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Post by blacken on Apr 28, 2006 0:17:39 GMT 1
I've been looking, and really--I don't see why raw mode USB won't work...
Of course, the alternative (and one I'm actively looking into; I just plopped down $100 on parts and such) is to put a host chip into the controller.
And a RS232 dongle does me no good. I only have a mini-USB jack.
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Post by _Em on Apr 28, 2006 22:42:14 GMT 1
raw mode USB WILL work... the problem is, raw mode USB uses up precious CPU cycles, denying them to LJP/R, making the software run too slowly to be usable. Putting a host chip in the controller would alleviate this issue, by enabling the controller to drive the USB chain instead of the Palm, which is already pushed to its limit, CPU-wise.
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Post by metaview on May 8, 2006 16:58:29 GMT 1
The support for the BT gamepad and a standard IR keyboard is solved (see other thread), if only this gamepad would have a better design... Buit there is one guy in the net who put it into a PS1 gamepad, kinda cool, I will do it too :-)
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Post by Tinnus on May 8, 2006 17:07:14 GMT 1
That will come in handy the day we have a fast PS1 emulator..  (not too far... ) |
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lol, thnks so I guess this is a no at the moment, but im not bothered because im still amazed on the capabilities of this genuis emulator, because it works, you dont have to convert a million roms and it does SNES!!!
