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Post by tgwaste on Apr 23, 2007 20:06:14 GMT 1
Hey... I leave home at 7 AM and get home at 7 PM... and yet I'm still finding time to test  --However, I've been trying to write a couple of apps for the past month, and haven't got past the algorithm design and basic pasteboard, so I can feel Tinnus' pain 'finding time to test' ! HAHAH.. love that! If I could figure out how to compile LJP, I could do a lot of coding work as well. Im fluent in C.. but only on UNIX systems compiling with GCC. Man I wish I could compile this with GCC!  |
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Post by namelessplayer on Apr 23, 2007 22:11:20 GMT 1
Back to the BT Sixaxis/Wiimote stuff...well, if no one else is going to do it, then I guess I'd better learn how, because it's not going to get done otherwise. Even if it takes me the rest of my life. You guys have your hands full already, and it's looking like one of you wants me shot right now.
What's the current BT gamepad code like? I'll go look at some PC Wiimote drivers(current PC Sxiaxis drivers only support the pad in USB mode, not BT mode)to see if I can find anything similar...
...Oh, wait, I don't have reliable access to a BT-enabled Palm OS device. (I have a T|C and a Treo 600 that needs a charger, a friend has a T|E, and there's another friend of mine who isn't going to just let me borrow his LifeDrive to test a console emulator suite. That makes ONE Palm OS 5 device with BT support out of four, and it's the one I can tinker the least with.)
Still, I ought to work out something for my X50v...and if I do, perhaps my solution can work its way to you Palm OS BT users. But don't expect it now, or tomorrow, or probably even this year. Same goes for LJR/LJX/whatever and MetaView's next release of his tweaked LJP build. Development is difficult, especially to a person with little to no coding experience.
Now, all has been said said and done, and I think I'm going to take a vacation before the rest of you start throwing rusty knives heated to white-hot temperatures at me for being too inconsiderate.
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Post by metaview on Apr 23, 2007 22:42:09 GMT 1
tgwaste: It should be possible, using peal and prc-tools. I never found the time to try it out, but if you have the time to do it...
namelessplayer: Send me your BT sicaxis/Wiimote :-) I fear it's using the HID-profile. I haven't found any good info about the HID yet and I don't have a HID device. The BT gamepad uses plain serial communication over BT, makes an implementation quick and easy.
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Post by _Em on Apr 23, 2007 22:59:23 GMT 1
prc-tools.sourceforge.net/That's how you compile such things with GCC  Now, converting it from an MCP project to a GCC project... that I'm not so sure how to do.
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Post by tgwaste on Apr 23, 2007 23:55:59 GMT 1
prc-tools.sourceforge.net/That's how you compile such things with GCC Now, converting it from an MCP project to a GCC project... that I'm not so sure how to do. Ya, I wouldnt even know where to begin. hehe |
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Post by vilmos on Apr 24, 2007 3:19:28 GMT 1
You can supposedly output a unix makefile if you want to from CW. Worst case the MCP is just XML so it isn't that hard to sort out.
Of course you can supposedly import a unix makefile too but I haven't had that succeed yet after many attempts with different projects.
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Post by elpoco on Apr 24, 2007 8:45:49 GMT 1
Actually, it's a bit more complicated than just adjusting the makefile.
I tried to do it with Metaview's base port engine (the one based on yoyo's zdoomz). The 68k part was quite easy : just had to fix a few things here and there to make it compile.
But so far I didn't get anywhere with the PNO app. It uses some CW proprietary libraries so you have to find how to replace these... and it's not always easy.
But I guess that a makefile would also help to know what to compile and/or link at what time.
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Post by vilmos on Apr 24, 2007 13:30:21 GMT 1
Well no you can't just compile straight away, but at least knowing what files are included and how should make it easier.
There would have to be a lot of adjustments since segments can only be 32K using GCC and they are 64K with CW and with GCC you will need something like peal or the new MobileStream SDK.
That SDK might make things easier as it is made to be used with gcc and native apps.
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Post by elpoco on Apr 24, 2007 16:20:54 GMT 1
Yes, knowing what files are included an how would be really useful.
You can compile segments of 64k with GCC, by adding something in your commandline (I don't remember what, but I used it for the 68k part of zdoomz).
Yes you need peal and/or MobileStream SDK (didn't really try this one, but it looks interesting, and maybe simpler to use than peal) but the hard thing is to find out what to use in these to replace CW specific functions (and other functions that depend on those or that are replaced by these new tools).
Anyway, I've taken a break from this to avoid getting frustrated and giving up but I'd try to get back to it someday.
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Post by _Em on Apr 24, 2007 16:39:12 GMT 1
I think we need some input from Dmitry.
BTW: What IDE are you using for LJX, Tinnus? From the fact that you're compiling on Windows, I'm guessing it isn't gcc (sigh)...
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Post by tgwaste on Apr 24, 2007 17:24:27 GMT 1
I think we need some input from Dmitry. BTW: What IDE are you using for LJX, Tinnus? From the fact that you're compiling on Windows, I'm guessing it isn't gcc (sigh)... Well now I told him he should use GCC before he started but he hates me so... |
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Post by namelessplayer on Apr 24, 2007 21:47:54 GMT 1
metaview: I'm not going to send you my only Wiimote or my neighbor's Sixaxis, but perhaps I can make a PayPal donation for you to use towards a Sixaxis or Wiimote. Unfortunately, I just remembered that you're in Deutschland and not the United States(I tend to assume that everyone else on the Internet is a fellow American if they're posting in English), so I don't know how that's going to work out as far as conversion from US$ to whatever currency you use goes. Oh, and according to wiili.org, it DOES use the HID profile. I didn't know that the reason that the BGP-100 was so easily implemented was because it used a serial interface...I guess you really do learn something new every day. Also, pardon me for my rather paranoid nature. Unless it's a really friendly place like Brighthand, I generally expect that everyone on the Internet is just plain out to get me for the smallest infraction. I have been rather demanding on you hard-working developers, though, or so it seems...just keep making LJP and LJR/LJX/whatever the best they can be, and worry about LJWM and the like in some form later on. |
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Post by Tinnus on Apr 24, 2007 23:06:14 GMT 1
OK, let's say some stuff to make people happy. - I'm making LJX with GCC and Dev-C++, and using SDL for graphics, sound and input. But the SDL part is the OS-dependent part--although SDL runs pretty much everywhere, that part is also abstracted in the sense that, when I do the PalmOS version, I'll scrap SDL and do stuff optimized for PalmOS. Same for PSP, GP2X, and... - I'll do LJX-WM if I get a WM device or (better and easier) an emulator. And if someone finds me a GCC environment of sorts (I don't want to spend money on VisualStudio or whatever it takes). - I'll do LJX-Palm with GCC and the MobileStream livrary, most likely. If not, I'll try Peal. CW is at the bottom of my list, it just breaks the cooperation of most people who like to just type "./configure" then "make" - I'll get MetaView's code for BT and IR added to LJX-Palm. Also the IR-Lib for PSP and such. Remember, LJX is the flexiblest (word?) thing in the world. Any new thing like a new controller model, or a new rendering engine, anything can be easily pluggled. Once the basic structure (all modules with display, contrtols and sound on most major platforms) is finished, I'll get around to adding all the bells and whistles possible and imaginable. Think playing Super Mario Bros in your LifeDrive, with your friend in a PSP, via Wi-Fi or IR. Think playing Super mario Bros with a BT gamepad in your TX, with a guy at the other side of the planet, running Linux. Well, that's the idea behind the multiplatform thing. I hope i can pull that out, but it's not much more than learning about network code... Anyway, the most boring and hard part is re-adapting the modules to work with the new, clean framework--since the old one was too ugly, bloated and such. For example, the NES module was derivated from the old NES emulator for the Gp32 that yoyo wrote several years ago... and that one is also based on others and so on--you get the picture. Good news is NES works, so... Maybe I'll stop programming the Launcher UI and do a PalmOS POC before just to get you guys happy. And I promise I'll try to add the keyboards and controllers alike  |
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Post by tgwaste on Apr 24, 2007 23:21:10 GMT 1
So you can do it nice and neat in GCC if someone gives you an environment to work in? Like just a unix shell? I can probably accommodate that.
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Post by _Em on Apr 25, 2007 0:48:23 GMT 1
Tinnus: there are two GCC environments (for free) for Windows: www.mingw.org/ - MinGW - Minimalist GNU for Windows and www.cygwin.com/ - CygWin - GNU Cygnus for Windows CygWin is a complete GNU environment for Windows; MinGW is a set of libraries and a minimalist shell for doing ./configure; make on Windows. |
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Post by tgwaste on Apr 25, 2007 1:10:48 GMT 1
GCC in windows is blasphemous!!! ShAME! |
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Post by metaview on Apr 25, 2007 7:31:06 GMT 1
I never heard of a gcc env for WM (that's what we talk about, or?). But there is a free eVC++ from MS. It might even can be used to be called from the command line and therefore would be suitable for make...
namelessplayer: conversion from US-$ to € isn't a problem at all, only the rate is not that nice. The Wii Remote is 39.85€ on Amazon.de, which will be around 52 US-$.
Regards
Henk
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Post by _Em on Apr 25, 2007 17:37:07 GMT 1
Henk: I think we're talking about IDEs that run on Windows, but compile to other targets. You raise a good point though... WM isn't a build target for gcc.
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Post by namelessplayer on Apr 25, 2007 23:09:28 GMT 1
Cross-platform multiplayer? SWEET! I can link up my T|C and my X50v with Wi-Fi, and then my friend can join in with his PSP! I could even try getting my two PCs to join in as well! (The original NES POC was compiled for a Windows PC, so I don't see why LJX wouldn't run on full-blown computers.) Even better if Internet play is supported! Multiplayer emulation will never be the same again! Yes, I know it's not nearly at that point yet, but it gives me something to look forward to. I'd still need to find a game that would support that many players at once, though...all of my MP games only support two players maximum(Wario's Woods SNES, Streets of Rage 1-3, Gunstar Heroes...what else? The rest are single-player...oh, wait, Seiken Densetsu 2 and 3! Can't forget those!). Also, you have to pay 52 US$ for a Wiimote in Deutschland? Ouch. Only 40 US$ here for said Wiimote. Then again, I've heard that electronics in general tend to be more expensive in Europe. So, MS offers a free WM development environment? Good. I've wanted the greatest game ever to run on my X50v, and luckily, there's a WinCE SDL port out there. Maybe I can work something out... |
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Post by metaview on Apr 27, 2007 8:21:33 GMT 1
As far as I know, SDL for WinCE doesn't support threads. I'm not sure if the thread API is implemented at all in WinCE. MS might just have dropped it.
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Post by faultyyoghurt on Apr 29, 2007 22:14:31 GMT 1
Not sure where this will go but I'll try.... There is a fourth bluetooth game controller that I know about, originally sold for the x-box. Here are some... search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?from=R40&satitle=lm616&category0=Not sure if it would work because it comes with its own host, and I can't find any information on what type of bluetooth it uses (or even if it can connect with the PC). It's a little more available, cheaper, and nicer than the bgp100, and it even comes with a headset. Do you all think I should buy one and see what it can do? The regular xbox controllers are pretty easy to modify into a USB PC connection, and I need a good wireless PC controller anyway. Imagine if the bluetooth worked with everything on it. There's at least 12 buttons, two analog sticks, a digital pad, and a headset connection... |
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Post by namelessplayer on Apr 29, 2007 23:08:51 GMT 1
No threads for WM SDL(or Palm OS SDL, for that matter)? CRAP! Why is it that the platforms I want that very game on have SDL implementations that don't support threading all that well?
While I'm at it, do the PSP and GP2X implementations of SDL have good threading support?
And about that gamepad, are you sure it's Bluetooth and not some proprietary wireless protocol?
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Post by faultyyoghurt on Apr 29, 2007 23:21:23 GMT 1
It uses bluetooth. Says it's for better connections. And whether it uses bluetooth "proprietarily", I don't know either. I can't find information on it one way or the other...
But I do know it uses bluetooth lol.
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Post by metaview on Apr 29, 2007 23:45:17 GMT 1
I'm not sure if it's really BT-compatible. Maybe they only use the same frequency. But it's freaing cheap, isn't it? But they don't send outside USA or Canada. If someone from USA or Canada wants to make me a favor, buy one and send it to me in a normal package as a donation, declared as a gift with a value of around 1 US-$ (seems to be the price on ebay). I will see if I can do anything with it. I doubt it, but it doesn't cost much... If it doesn't work, I will sell it on ebay here in Germany Btw: a Panic Exit button is added to LJP |
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Post by Tinnus on Apr 30, 2007 1:36:58 GMT 1
The PalmOS one doesn't have it also AFAIK, heh. Anyway, I'm pretty well aware of MinGW and cygwin... remember I study CS I meant a free/cheap development environment for Windows Mobile, since I have free environments for all others (PC, PSP, GP2X, PalmOS). OK, question time: do you want me to show you a prototype launcher or a Palm-emulator POC? The interesting part about the Palm-emulator POC is the handful of optimizations I have in mind, so some pretty nice speed can show up |
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Post by faultyyoghurt on Apr 30, 2007 3:44:06 GMT 1
Those sellers make the money on that controller through shipping...$20 shipping to nearly any zip code I put in.
Since there are two people who have questioned the bluetooth compatibility now, I'm starting to as well. The box and description clearly state that it uses bluetooth for wireless. But maybe the bluetooth is used for the headset and a proprietary rf is used for the buttons...
Anyway, I'll buy one soon and find out what the bluetooth is used for and what type it is. Worst-case scenario is it only works as a wireless PC Gamepad after I modify it. If it looks like it could be usable, I'll post here and send it to you.
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Post by tgwaste on May 1, 2007 4:31:00 GMT 1
OK, question time: do you want me to show you a prototype launcher or a Palm-emulator POC? The interesting part about the Palm-emulator POC is the handful of optimizations I have in mind, so some pretty nice speed can show up Yes. |
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Post by _Em on May 1, 2007 6:51:18 GMT 1
MS has a free dev environment for WM -- It's basically Visual Studio "lite' -- I've used it for a few projects, and it works pretty well. I'll see if I can dig up a URL for you tomorrow.
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Post by Tinnus on May 1, 2007 18:17:53 GMT 1
Does it include a fully working emulator/simulator? I don't want (and don't have the money ) to buy a WM device (at the moment at least) and it would be great to be able to debug and test on an emulator. |
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Post by _Em on May 1, 2007 19:10:31 GMT 1
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